An Interview with Paul Kimmelman: The School Leadership Triangle

The School Leadership Triangle

2.9.10 - Michael F. Shaughnessy - Paul, in your book, you discuss the thinking of these policy makers in Washington and at the state level.

An Interview with Paul Kimmelman: The School Leadership Triangle

Michael F. Shaughnessy
Eastern New Mexico University
Portales, New Mexico 88130

1)      Paul, why did you write “The School Leadership Triangle “?

Our CEO at Learning Point Associates, Gina Burkhardt, discussed with our staff how important leadership and innovation are to improving education. She elaborated by explaining that we can’t use compliance as a reason to not accept the daunting challenges federal rules and laws impose on our work. My task was to think about how those concepts could be applicable to the work of practitioners in K-12 schools.  After pondering how to connect those three, often-disconnected concepts in school improvement initiatives, I decided to get personal input from members of congress who were involved in NCLB and then compare it to Sarbanes-Oxley, a compliance law for business passed at about the same time as NCLB. Then, I worked on an overview of leadership theory and concepts and offered some ideas for new thinking about leadership in schools. I also interviewed school personnel and others who had provocative thoughts on education reform.  Finally I reviewed how innovation actually is viewed in business and interviewed representatives from two leading innovative design thinking firms for their ideas about innovation and how it could be implemented in a school setting.

2)       Paul, in your book, you discuss the thinking of these policy makers in Washington and at the state level. Is it just me, or are they far removed from the realities that teachers face in the classroom?

Actually, I think it is incorrect to assume that the policymakers are far removed from the realities teachers face in the classroom. Much of their policy work is the result of input from their constituents, educators and others interested in education. As former congressman Oxley said in his interview with me, congress is a reactive body and after many years of not seeing progress on student achievement and substantial investments in education, NCLB was passed with sanctions for not meeting proficiency goals. Unfortunately, there are such diverse opinions regarding what the right way to educate students is that whatever ideas the members of congress support, they will ultimately conflict with those who have a different viewpoint. In the end, however, I found they truly believed that they were working on behalf of the students and what the U.S. needed in education to be a competitive in the world economy. It should also not go unnoticed that NCLB had substantial bipartisan support when it was passed so there was a general consensus on what was needed to get better results from the use of federal funds in schools.

3)      It always seems that there are UNDERESTIMATES of the number of children with disabilities, handicaps, exceptionalities (whatever politically correct term you want to use) in Washington. Are they just ignoring data, or do they not care?

This topic was not part of my interviews.

4)      Let me use two words to globally describe the feedback regarding NCLB----UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS---are the Senators and Congressmen really aware of the problems teachers face in the classroom?

Yes, I believe so. I didn’t hear one member of Congress suggest that the law didn’t need to be revised. And, none of them were surprised that there would be a need to fix it. They recognized that some of the provisions weren’t working as intended and said corrections needed to be made. There is however, a difference of opinion on what provisions to correct and how they should be changed.  Unfortunately, the reauthorization is taking much longer than expected and the things that need to be changed are exacerbating the problems for schools to comply with it.

5)      Let’s face it. There is poverty, and there are dysfunctional families- are teachers expected to fix these problems or ignore them?

I think it is clear that no policymaker or educator wants to ignore the problems. In my work, and I have made countless presentations on NCLB, I haven’t heard people dispute the fundamental principles of NCLB. Rather, they realistically say that 100% of the students achieving proficiency is not going to happen.  It is a laudable goal but even the best surgeons who take on the most complex cases lose patients. Some of the challenges teachers are accepting go beyond the school and without more parental and community support they are unlikely to succeed with every student.

6)       What do YOU mean by school reform?

School reform really does mean different things to different people. To me it is simply changing what needs to be changed in schools whether it is products, programs or practices to meet the needs of all students so they can succeed in life. That definition incorporates the understanding that educators are actively involved in creating a 21^st century learning environment that uses truly innovative thinking to overcome the most challenging problems they face.

7)      Some indicate there is no such thing as education, but rather gifted education, bilingual education, early childhood education, special education, vocational education. Are there way too many special interest groups or way too many of these tangential approaches to education?

There are many special interest groups but to suggest that there are way too many would be to imply that those who are in need of advocacy don’t deserve it. The problem seems to be that education is not unlike politics and it has become too difficult to compromise positions to resolve the disputes.

8)      Paul, in business- there is a bottom line- profit and loss---if my hamburger stand does not clear a profit, then ultimately, I lose money and have to go out of business or into deep debt. Schools can continue to function almost indefinitely with only minimal success- however you define “success”. What needs to change?

While not a central theme of my book, I do note that the for profit sector is making inroads in public education and becoming a viable competitor to public schools for some services. The big changes needed that appear to be of critical importance to schools are the ability to operate more efficiently and produce better results. I don’t believe local and state funding for schools can keep pace with the traditional school structure. That means schools need to devise innovative ideas to be more successful educating students and operate more efficiently. That may be easier said than done but it is the future reality for public education.

In the book I discuss and include interviews with representatives from Advanced Academics, an online education provider. They have found a way to work with states and school districts so that both parties are “winners”. That is but one example of what is happening in schools today and I believe in the next decade online education will have a profound effect on public schooling. It can really “level the playing field”, particularly for schools that have a difficult time recruiting and retaining specialized teachers or serving students in rural areas.

       9) What have I neglected to ask about the book and where am I off base?

            What is one of the most important take aways from your book?

            I believe there is a paucity of innovation in schools and I don’t fault school personnel for     

            the problem. First, many businesses have the resources to hire the Doblin Consulting and  

            IDEO firms to assist them with the process of innovating. Very few schools can afford

             that type of support.

             Second, there is innovation taking place in education but there is no network to  

             disseminate it so that others can replicate it in their setting.  I note in the book that sports         

             fans created a             national blog to overcome a similar problem. And, finally, educators don’t

             understand how to innovate nor are they given the right context to undertake the process.

            We need opportunities like how Proctor and Gamble provides at Bank Street to really   

             stimulate creative ideas in education. We don’t always need a high tech gadget but

             instead a simple idea that brings better results.

For example, I mention how Bernard Sadow came up with the suitcase with wheels. It is really a simple idea that took two old products and when they were combined produced a much better product that transformed the luggage industry. I think there are many educators who are incubating ideas that could be the suitcase with wheels in education. We simply need to look at ways to provide the right contexts and opportunities for the practitioners to engage in real innovation.

       10) How would you suggest your book be used in schools?

I specifically wrote it to be used in study groups focusing on their own priorities so that there could be a good discussion about the rationale for compliance, the type of leadership and model that might work best in their setting and how to implement a real innovation initiative. The book is intentionally not very long so it can be read quickly.