Just Listen

2.5.10 - Michael F. Shaughnessy - More people talk than listen and I wrote the book because I also noticed a deep ache in people when they're talking to not be tuned out, to not be figured out (unless they're asking for advice), but to be understood and when possible to "feel felt."

An Interview with Mark Goulston: Just Listen

Michael F. Shaughnessy
Eastern New Mexico University
Portales, New Mexico

1)      Dr. Goulston, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to respond to some questions about your book. First of all, what led you to write this book?

More people talk than listen and I wrote the book because I also noticed a deep ache in people when they're talking to not be tuned out, to not be figured out (unless they're asking for advice), but to be understood and when possible to "feel felt."  When you are figured out, you feel like a problem to be solved; when you feel understood, you feel less confusing and less crazy; when you feel felt, you feel less alone.

2)      A lot of your book could be summed up in two words—empathy training, or sensitivity training---why do people in general seem to lack these traits?

When people don't feel listened to, they continue to feel frustrated.  When they feel frustrated, they're coming from a place of incompleteness and scarcity and it is very difficult to be empathic and sensitive coming from a place of something being missing.  That is why the thrust of the book is if you deeply listen and care about other people, it can cause them to calm down, feel complete and feel grateful for what you've provided them.  It is out of that place of completeness they are able to reciprocate and most people will.

3)      Is the issue one of listening, or listening with feeling, or listening with understanding?

The issue is one of listening without any personal self serving agenda -- or as psychoanalyst Wilfred Bion called, "listening without memory or desire" -- other than to truly understand and value where the other person is coming from and then communicating that understanding and valuing to them.

4)      Please tell us about the power of hmmmm..

"Hmmm..." is what I just used with your request.  It communicates, "I am listening and continuing to listen, so tell me more and even tell me more deeply what is going on."  It also reassures the other person that what you're saying is important enough to listen to, it is interesting, it is relevant and it is not foolish.  It is what I call a relationship deepener, because after you say it, people will tend to feel freer to talk about deeper things on their minds.

5)      What is an "empathy jolt" and why do so many people need it or want it?

An empathy jolt is something that suddenly communicates to us that in the world of people who don't care about you or even think you are worth caring about, here standing in front of you is someone who does.  It is completely disarming because most of our defenses are aimed at protecting ourselves or attacking back at a world that doesn't care about us, and when suddenly it does, those defenses become unnecessary.  The result is we feel off balance, embarrassed and good as we quickly take in that caring moment.

6)      I love your stories- could you share the story of Lauren, your daughter and why you feel it important?

In a world that often conspires (when we're feeling paranoid) to take us for granted, a power thank you changes everything.  A power thank you has three parts: 1) thanking someone for what they did; 2) acknowledging the effort it took for them to do it; 3) telling them the difference it made to you personally. 

My daughter Lauren provided me with one when she was in her early twenties and walking around Manhattan with some friends talking about how confused they felt at that time in their lives.  Here is what she sent me:

Hi dad, Last night I was walking around Manhattan as I often do with my friends talking about how confused we felt about our futures. And as often happens I said, “My dad said…” and as always happens, it made the conversation considerably better. I don't know how many of my friends can say the same about their fathers. I am so lucky to have such a wise dad, even if he does live 3,000 miles away. See you in a few weeks. Love, Lauren.

7)      What is a “Power Apology “?

Just as a power thank you makes someone else feel special, a "Power Apology" makes someone feel that you are truly sorry about having hurt them and that you are committed to making it up to them and to taking steps to never do it again. It has four parts:

1. Remorse when people feel hurt they want to feel that you don't merely regret having done it, but that you feel pain in having done that.  It's looking into their eyes, saying and meaning: "I'm sorry, I was wrong."

2. Restitution - this is offering a payback to them for having hurt them.  By giving them something back it eases the hate they feel towards you for hurting them.

3. Rehabilitation - this is learning a new way to deal with conflict and upset, that you actually enjoy knowing (as opposed to merely doing it to appease them), rather than resorting to your hurtful behavior.

4. Request forgiveness - since you can't change the past, after 6 months of practicing and internalizing into your personality remorse, restitution and rehabilitation you have earned the right to request forgiveness.  If they are unable to do it, it shifts to their being unforgiving rather than your being unforgivable.

8)      Why do we need to make people feel valuable or important?

When people feel unvalued and unimportant it triggers hurt, anger and usually retaliation or at the very least a resistance to cooperating with you.

9)      Dr. Goulston, please fill in the blank. Those people who read my book will ______________________________________.

Those people who read my book will : enjoy deserved and dramatic success, feel less alone in a tough world and get to the end of their lives and be able to look back with a broad satisfied, smile.  They'll also get some eulogies that will not leave a dry eye in the audience.

10)   Dr. Goulston, I want to express my very deep appreciation to you for answering, and responding to my questions, and for making me just a little bit better person, and hopefully a little bit better counselor. Why is it so important, in your mind to thank people POWERFULLY for what they have done?

To differentiate yourself from all the people who don't, and during quiet times to feel more proud of yourself as a human being.

11)   What have I neglected to ask?

You did very well and caused me to think about things that put a smile on MY face.  So thank you.