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	<title>Comments on: Kevin Wolfman: The White Case for Affirmative Action</title>
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	<link>http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/kevin-wolfman-the-white-case-for-affirmative-action/</link>
	<description>Education News</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin Wolfman: The White Case for Affirmative Action (Participation) &#171; IntrotoCES</title>
		<link>http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/kevin-wolfman-the-white-case-for-affirmative-action/#comment-8260</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Wolfman: The White Case for Affirmative Action (Participation) &#171; IntrotoCES</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2012 23:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.educationnews.org/?p=209184#comment-8260</guid>
		<description>[...] Kevin Wolfman: The White Case for Affirmative Action [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Kevin Wolfman: The White Case for Affirmative Action [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jack</title>
		<link>http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/kevin-wolfman-the-white-case-for-affirmative-action/#comment-7064</link>
		<dc:creator>jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.educationnews.org/?p=209184#comment-7064</guid>
		<description>What did you learn the hard way in this job and what happened specifically that led up to this lesson?
http://www.militaryobservation.info/
I learned that I love the structure and order of the Military. There was a time when I felt that I didn’t want to be a Marine anymore and I ended my contract and faded away into another corporate job without rewards. I spent three years of my life in a business skirt and went home each night wondering what difference I was making. That’s when I decided to come back into the Military and deploy to Iraq.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What did you learn the hard way in this job and what happened specifically that led up to this lesson?<br />
<a href="http://www.militaryobservation.info/" rel="nofollow">http://www.militaryobservation.info/</a><br />
I learned that I love the structure and order of the Military. There was a time when I felt that I didn’t want to be a Marine anymore and I ended my contract and faded away into another corporate job without rewards. I spent three years of my life in a business skirt and went home each night wondering what difference I was making. That’s when I decided to come back into the Military and deploy to Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: DChaser</title>
		<link>http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/kevin-wolfman-the-white-case-for-affirmative-action/#comment-6016</link>
		<dc:creator>DChaser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.educationnews.org/?p=209184#comment-6016</guid>
		<description>Mr. Wolfman, So many contradictions propagated by the proponents of AA like you.  I&#039;ll pick one. We should recognize that racial diversity on campus is a continuum, namely there are more diverse and less diverse colleges. If more diversity is a goal worthy of pursuing at the many costs listed by Roger Clegg above, then let&#039;s bring it to it&#039;s logical conclusion --racial quota would achieve the ultimate ideal. But we all know racial quota is unconstitutional. 

This is because a racial quota system is in disagreement with liberal free-market principles. Whatever smoke and mirrors one may empoly, the current admission AA practice is a version of quota, and it undermines free choice, competition, and fair play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Wolfman, So many contradictions propagated by the proponents of AA like you.  I&#8217;ll pick one. We should recognize that racial diversity on campus is a continuum, namely there are more diverse and less diverse colleges. If more diversity is a goal worthy of pursuing at the many costs listed by Roger Clegg above, then let&#8217;s bring it to it&#8217;s logical conclusion &#8211;racial quota would achieve the ultimate ideal. But we all know racial quota is unconstitutional. </p>
<p>This is because a racial quota system is in disagreement with liberal free-market principles. Whatever smoke and mirrors one may empoly, the current admission AA practice is a version of quota, and it undermines free choice, competition, and fair play.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas6</title>
		<link>http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/kevin-wolfman-the-white-case-for-affirmative-action/#comment-6007</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 04:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.educationnews.org/?p=209184#comment-6007</guid>
		<description>The major impact of affirmative action is not on whites but on Asians.  If you eliminated AA today, the numbers of Asian students at elite schools would go up, the numbers of black students would go down, and the numbers of white students would stay about the same.

So tell me again why Asian students today should pay the price for discrimination long ago against black people?

I interpret AA as principally reflecting a desire by elite schools to keep the numbers of Asian students down, just as they tried to keep the numbers of Jewish students down in the last century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The major impact of affirmative action is not on whites but on Asians.  If you eliminated AA today, the numbers of Asian students at elite schools would go up, the numbers of black students would go down, and the numbers of white students would stay about the same.</p>
<p>So tell me again why Asian students today should pay the price for discrimination long ago against black people?</p>
<p>I interpret AA as principally reflecting a desire by elite schools to keep the numbers of Asian students down, just as they tried to keep the numbers of Jewish students down in the last century.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul137</title>
		<link>http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/kevin-wolfman-the-white-case-for-affirmative-action/#comment-5983</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul137</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 22:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.educationnews.org/?p=209184#comment-5983</guid>
		<description>Speaking of boilerplate, as he does in responding to Clegg, Wolfman&#039;s entire case rests on the mantra that diversity of the kind extolled throughout the American academy is something to be sought out for its myriad advantages.  Pure boilerplate!

As Jared Taylor has written ( http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/jt_diver.html ), if there really were substantial advantages in &quot;glorious-rainbow&quot;-style diversity, people would eventually catch on and seek it out, instead of having it imposed upon them, shoved down their throats.

In fact, all you actually get in this real world regarding diversity are contradictions.  First, if there&#039;s to be benefit in diversity, there must be systematic differences among the categories of people called &quot;white,&quot; &quot;Asian,&quot; &quot;black,&quot; etc.   (After all, the trivial difference of skin color can&#039;t yield benefits.)  So, e.g., black students must be heard from.  But aren&#039;t the people pushing hardest for diversity pretty much the same ones who insist that there&#039;s no such thing as race, and everyone is fundamentally the same?  (Yes!)

Second, the general experience on &quot;diverse&quot; campuses is not of increased understanding and appreciation across racial lines but of increased hostility and self-segregation.  As in the larger society, race relations are actually deteriorating.  (There&#039;s really nothing surprising about this -- humans are tribal, worldwide and throughout history, and &quot;diverse&quot; societies are usually fractious, often lethally so.)

Wolfman takes a wave at describing diversity&#039;s specific benefit for white college students with his assertion that those immersed in diversity wind up capable of &quot;weaving multiple perspectives and shades of nuance.&quot;  But this is easily recognizable as mere orotund, fatuous blather.

Finally, a sufficient argument **against** affirmative action -- never mind its disadvantages for minorities -- is that it&#039;s bad for whites (in its unfairness) and white institutions (for the deterioration in their standards that inevitably results).  And if non-whites want to benefit from the civilization that white people have created, then it&#039;s up to the non-whites to assimilate and perform and then let the chips fall where they may, not to demand re-engineering of the societies and institutions they specifically sought out.  

(Of course, black Americans who are descendants of slaves can&#039;t be said to have sought out Western societies.  But would they really want to migrate to Africa?  A book pertinent to that question is Keith Richburg&#039;s _Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa_.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of boilerplate, as he does in responding to Clegg, Wolfman&#8217;s entire case rests on the mantra that diversity of the kind extolled throughout the American academy is something to be sought out for its myriad advantages.  Pure boilerplate!</p>
<p>As Jared Taylor has written ( <a href="http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/jt_diver.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/jt_diver.html</a> ), if there really were substantial advantages in &#8220;glorious-rainbow&#8221;-style diversity, people would eventually catch on and seek it out, instead of having it imposed upon them, shoved down their throats.</p>
<p>In fact, all you actually get in this real world regarding diversity are contradictions.  First, if there&#8217;s to be benefit in diversity, there must be systematic differences among the categories of people called &#8220;white,&#8221; &#8220;Asian,&#8221; &#8220;black,&#8221; etc.   (After all, the trivial difference of skin color can&#8217;t yield benefits.)  So, e.g., black students must be heard from.  But aren&#8217;t the people pushing hardest for diversity pretty much the same ones who insist that there&#8217;s no such thing as race, and everyone is fundamentally the same?  (Yes!)</p>
<p>Second, the general experience on &#8220;diverse&#8221; campuses is not of increased understanding and appreciation across racial lines but of increased hostility and self-segregation.  As in the larger society, race relations are actually deteriorating.  (There&#8217;s really nothing surprising about this &#8212; humans are tribal, worldwide and throughout history, and &#8220;diverse&#8221; societies are usually fractious, often lethally so.)</p>
<p>Wolfman takes a wave at describing diversity&#8217;s specific benefit for white college students with his assertion that those immersed in diversity wind up capable of &#8220;weaving multiple perspectives and shades of nuance.&#8221;  But this is easily recognizable as mere orotund, fatuous blather.</p>
<p>Finally, a sufficient argument **against** affirmative action &#8212; never mind its disadvantages for minorities &#8212; is that it&#8217;s bad for whites (in its unfairness) and white institutions (for the deterioration in their standards that inevitably results).  And if non-whites want to benefit from the civilization that white people have created, then it&#8217;s up to the non-whites to assimilate and perform and then let the chips fall where they may, not to demand re-engineering of the societies and institutions they specifically sought out.  </p>
<p>(Of course, black Americans who are descendants of slaves can&#8217;t be said to have sought out Western societies.  But would they really want to migrate to Africa?  A book pertinent to that question is Keith Richburg&#8217;s _Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa_.)</p>
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		<title>By: Dave F</title>
		<link>http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/kevin-wolfman-the-white-case-for-affirmative-action/#comment-5979</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave F</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 20:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.educationnews.org/?p=209184#comment-5979</guid>
		<description>The article and the study did seem to show that the white and asian students (victims) were better able to state views that the AA crowd approved, so obviously were much better off because they learned to like the wolves.  This assumes that the Stockholm Symdrome is a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article and the study did seem to show that the white and asian students (victims) were better able to state views that the AA crowd approved, so obviously were much better off because they learned to like the wolves.  This assumes that the Stockholm Symdrome is a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: George Leef</title>
		<link>http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/kevin-wolfman-the-white-case-for-affirmative-action/#comment-5901</link>
		<dc:creator>George Leef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 20:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.educationnews.org/?p=209184#comment-5901</guid>
		<description>Speaking of dubious research, the paper cited here as proving that white students become &quot;better thinkers&quot; if the student body is more diverse fits that category. I just read it and all that its experiment really shows is that white students, when challenged by unconventional views, will do a better job of arguing their views than when they are not. That doesn&#039;t indicate any lasting, or even temporary improvement in their &quot;thinking skills.&quot; Furthermore, the key to it is not necessarily racial difference, but different perspectives. That could just as well -- actually, better -- come from affirmative action to get more students on campus who hold such views and are not shy about advancing them. Doing that would probably lead to real campus interactions, not just the contrived experiment here. So should Harvard try to recruit more libertarians, Marxists,vegans, atheists, gun rights advocates, etc. in order to really improve &quot;diversity&quot; and serious discussions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of dubious research, the paper cited here as proving that white students become &#8220;better thinkers&#8221; if the student body is more diverse fits that category. I just read it and all that its experiment really shows is that white students, when challenged by unconventional views, will do a better job of arguing their views than when they are not. That doesn&#8217;t indicate any lasting, or even temporary improvement in their &#8220;thinking skills.&#8221; Furthermore, the key to it is not necessarily racial difference, but different perspectives. That could just as well &#8212; actually, better &#8212; come from affirmative action to get more students on campus who hold such views and are not shy about advancing them. Doing that would probably lead to real campus interactions, not just the contrived experiment here. So should Harvard try to recruit more libertarians, Marxists,vegans, atheists, gun rights advocates, etc. in order to really improve &#8220;diversity&#8221; and serious discussions?</p>
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		<title>By: JL</title>
		<link>http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/kevin-wolfman-the-white-case-for-affirmative-action/#comment-5893</link>
		<dc:creator>JL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 16:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.educationnews.org/?p=209184#comment-5893</guid>
		<description>Affirmative action, and indeed any effort to force &quot;diversity,&quot; serves to further discrimination and racism. 
Although you might disagree with it, although it might be wrong, you cannot deny people&#039;s perceptions of affirmative action. I completely agree with the benefits of diversity, as I have observed them first-hand at my school. However, the diversity at my school is natural, not forced. 
Mr. Clegg&#039;s list of negative effects is the reality where diversity is forced. Affirmative action draws negative attention to race. It tells people of a certain race. &quot;You&#039;re not good enough on your own, so we&#039;re lowering our standards for you.&quot; It tells other students, &quot;You worked really hard and you&#039;ve excelled amazingly, but your skin is the wrong color for this school or for this scholarship. You can&#039;t add a different enough perspective.&quot; Maybe that&#039;s not really what is happening, but that is what people perceive. 
Instead of relying on forced diversity that calls greater attention to race and furthers stereotypes, schools should find a more natural diversity solution. I don&#039;t have that solution, but I have confidence that it&#039;s out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Affirmative action, and indeed any effort to force &#8220;diversity,&#8221; serves to further discrimination and racism.<br />
Although you might disagree with it, although it might be wrong, you cannot deny people&#8217;s perceptions of affirmative action. I completely agree with the benefits of diversity, as I have observed them first-hand at my school. However, the diversity at my school is natural, not forced.<br />
Mr. Clegg&#8217;s list of negative effects is the reality where diversity is forced. Affirmative action draws negative attention to race. It tells people of a certain race. &#8220;You&#8217;re not good enough on your own, so we&#8217;re lowering our standards for you.&#8221; It tells other students, &#8220;You worked really hard and you&#8217;ve excelled amazingly, but your skin is the wrong color for this school or for this scholarship. You can&#8217;t add a different enough perspective.&#8221; Maybe that&#8217;s not really what is happening, but that is what people perceive.<br />
Instead of relying on forced diversity that calls greater attention to race and furthers stereotypes, schools should find a more natural diversity solution. I don&#8217;t have that solution, but I have confidence that it&#8217;s out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Clegg, Ctr for Equal Opportunity</title>
		<link>http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/kevin-wolfman-the-white-case-for-affirmative-action/#comment-5876</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Clegg, Ctr for Equal Opportunity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.educationnews.org/?p=209184#comment-5876</guid>
		<description>I did address that premise:  I said that, even if there are some marginal and controverted benefits, they must be weighed against the numeous, heavy, and incontrovertible costs.  On the problems with using the dubious social science in this area to justify something as ugly as racial discrimination, readers can take a look at part III of this essay:  http://198.173.245.213/pdfs/roger-clegg_attacking_diversity.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did address that premise:  I said that, even if there are some marginal and controverted benefits, they must be weighed against the numeous, heavy, and incontrovertible costs.  On the problems with using the dubious social science in this area to justify something as ugly as racial discrimination, readers can take a look at part III of this essay:  <a href="http://198.173.245.213/pdfs/roger-clegg_attacking_diversity.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://198.173.245.213/pdfs/roger-clegg_attacking_diversity.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Wolfman</title>
		<link>http://www.educationnews.org/higher-education/kevin-wolfman-the-white-case-for-affirmative-action/#comment-5859</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Wolfman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 02:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.educationnews.org/?p=209184#comment-5859</guid>
		<description>Mr. Clegg&#039;s original comment was certainly lengthy and comprehensive, but it failed to address the central premise of this particular article. It was standard anti-affirmative action boilerplate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Clegg&#8217;s original comment was certainly lengthy and comprehensive, but it failed to address the central premise of this particular article. It was standard anti-affirmative action boilerplate.</p>
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